Category: the Rant Board
Hi gang.
I need to tell you this. I've been wanting to go to church for the last little while, but for some odd reason, my parents don't approve of it. Every time I tell them that I want to go, they're always dropping a remark by saying that they don't want to hear about it. To me, church is very important and it's always good to have God in your life. I go whenever I am down visitting my sister in Woodstock, Ontario, but that's just not enough. I feel that I should go a lot more often than that. From what I hear, church is a great place to meet new people.
Hello, strange wonder why? Maybe it's because your parents d on't agree with the church or their beliefs are a bit different. Strange maybe you should ask your parents to explain a bit more.
Now then now then now then, I think it depends on which church you wish to attend. I would not be very happy about any child of mine attending the holy church of latter day saints, the evangelical missionaries or the church of scientology because I think these organisations are fanatical, wrong and, to a young vulnerable person, dangerous. so whilst on the face of it your parents' objections strike me as perhaps a little different to what one expects, nevertheless I think we'd all like to know which church it is you're proposing to attend.
You see, my parents and I are Catholics. But if ever I do get them to explain their reasoning in why they won't let me go, it just does no good whatsoever. It's just that over all, my parents are quite overprotective and I don't like that too much at all. I'm 34 years old, but I feel as though they're treating me like a kid in some ways. But at other times, there are definitely some good things about my mom and dad and I try as hard as I possibly can to think about them, so that I would be much happier.
if you're 34 then forgive me, but I don't see what the problem is. It doesn't matter a jot whether they want you to go to church or not, if you want to go, you go! From the tone of your post I thought you were still a child, but if you're 34 then go to church to your heart's content; you don't need the consent of your parents.
yeah I agree with LL. If you're 34 you're a adult, just go! I'd say "I know you don't approve of it, but in my own right I think I should go. I'll find a ride to and from. I'll be able to get into the house w/a house key if you're still sleeping. And have money for collection plate. No need to worry." And then go on the net and look for transit or a friend who goes to that church to give you a ride. This is totally different story on my end. But I'm 23, and my pals live in Upper Darbey. And even though my parents only met this couple once they knew it was time for me to be on my own. I made the decision to go visit them. They helped me find transit info and they met us (my dad and I) at the half way mark. They came out of the bus, said hi, and thanks for giving them faith that my dad trusts them. I was able to take transit with no problem, we stood together as a group. etc. And we're planning our second trip together. Next week. So if you feel you want to go to church, go with a friend.
I agree. Don't let your parents tell you what you can and can't do at your age. If you do you're only bringing your independency level down.
Troy
Well, not knowing your situation outside of what you've told, I can't say much. But I dont understand why your parents seem to not realize you are an adult and can make your own decisions including mistakes. You're right in that they're overprotective if they disapprove of your need to go to church. Do you live in a small town or isolated place and would ahve to depend on them for transportation? That can make things difficult and some people seem to want to hold that kind of thing over your head and only do it if they feel it's right in their eyes. Rather sucks if you ask me.
Well let me devils advocate here.I can understand why your parents are iffy about this Catholicism is mostly about guilt sin and fear its a very brain washing religion and maybe your parents are trying to shield you from that side of it...But its your right to follow whatever religion you choose
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try to set aside a time to really discuss this with your parents, and try to see things from their side as well as your own, because in Catholicism a sense of perspective is extremely rare
I've never heard such nonsense in my life. Very few Catholics follow the party line, that is to say, very few Catholics agree with the traditional orthodoxy of holy relics, weekly confessional and the sin of contraception or homosexuality. The majority, nay, the vast majority of Catholics including myself, are not like that at all. We don't seek to prosecute a crusade, we are tolerant of the views of other religions, and the Irish, which is a catholic nation of course, are amongst the most hospitable people in the world. Goblin your sweeping generalisations are ridiculous and, as is your wont, you don't back them up with any supporting evidence whatsoever. The Catholic faith is not founded, as you claim, on rule through fear. I don't know where you get your idea of Catholicism from, but I'd suggest to you by way of rebuttal that the presbytarians in scotland are far worse - after all, wasn't it John Knox, your fellow countryman, who wrote 'The first blast of the trumpet against the monstrous regiment of women'? And another thing, why should Jamy bother discussing this with her parents? For god's sake she's 34! Jamy, if you want to go to a Catholic church then sod everyone else, you go! You're not doing any harm to anyone else, and you know what's good for you at your age surely to goodness! One final word: Goblin, I suggest before you make downright offensive statements about Catholics you familiarise yourself with the faith a bit more and recognise that there are non-practising catholics like myself, devout Catholics who do a lot of good work in the communities and those who fall somewhere in between; very few are medieval extremists. You will see that we are no worse than Anglicans etc. and a great deal better than many others. I suppose we have to take consolation in that, for once, you didn't mention the Black Watch in your post.
Heaven and hell everlasting life sin and the weight of constantly watching your every move because you will pay for it later.
Hmm the Catholic religion seems to be prevelant in the poorest countries exacting money from people who can barely afford to feed themselves .see Central and Southern America..Bolivia...Peru....Mexico where the Catholic infulence is extremely strong, also Southern Italy for years this region has been financially dragging behind the affluent North, and has been staunchly Catholic.
Western and Southern Ireland where Catholicism is a way of life.
I wonder at you, Goblin, it's as if you're posting from a different world. I'm a Catholic, as I say, and I don't feel watched over. The Catholicism of which you speak is the Catholicism of chaucer, where the pardoner exacted money from the poor to sell them confessions for their sins. Your egregious omission, Goblin, is that you don't note that such practices went out at the time of Desiderius Erasmus and Sir Thomas More, both leading humanists, and the latter of whom, as you well know, was martyred in 1536 by King Henry VIII. So, if my calculations are correct, we can date the dying out of these practices as being roughly 470 years ago, and although I could understand your having old-fashioned views, I'd at least expect you to have got beyond the sixteenth century! Or maybe it isn't these methods of extorting money to which you refer, which begs the question of how else the catholics, or indeed protestants, extort money. No answer, I'm afraid. Catholic churches are entirely dependent on gratuities from the churchgoers, with the exception of convents who get money from the Vatican and who, in the main, put back into the community that which they take out. You are also very clever at what we barristers call 'tactical pleading' Goblin, in that you choose as examples in your list of countries the most convenient ones to suit your argument, whilst ignoring others that condemn it: let's take Italy and see if we can undermine your reasoning on that one. Yes, you're right, the south lags behind the north in that country, but you fail to note that this is because of the climate that prevails in the south. this renders it difficult to generate a thriving economy, as it does in Southern Spain where the climate and land make it impossible to grow anything. raw materials are lacking which makes the north more attractive to the secondary manufacturing industries. Okay, now let's take Ireland, and I'm afraid Goblin that this was an unwise choice for an example. Ireland's economy now outstrips our own, and the Irish income per capita is higher than that in britain! So, Goblin, how on earth can yyou say that staunch Catholicism has dragged the Irish economy down? Okay, turning to your South american examples you are quite correct about the parlous state of these countries, but this is as much attributable to the military, secular Juntas, or dictatorships, that have been a trait of that region of the world for much of the last century. Finally, you fail to note the Catholic countries that undermine your argument based on economics: as well as Ireland mentioned above there is Malta, one of the most economically healthy new members of the European Union, as well as Belgium, france (the majority of the french are Catholics even though it is not their state religion as they don't have one), spain, and Italy whose economy is very healthy despite what you say above. So, there we are. You'll need to substantiate your uncomfortable truths about Catholicism on far firmer ground before I bow to the superiority of your argument.
Well, I just saw the quality of life index (or which countries in the world rank highest in terms of living standards, taking in social welfare, crime etc) .. the number one was ... Ireland, looks like Catholicism is nindeed ruining our world. And the whole point of the Christian relegion is that you can be forgiven your sings. I certainly will not preach because it's not my place not role to force relegion on non-believers but the Christian relegion is actually very forgiving indeed .. "do onto others as you'd have them do onto you" .. you can sum the whole message up in that one thing and, hey, doesn't it make perfect sense, relegious or not ... ?
Absolutely Wildebrew, I quite agree and the only thing I can usefully add is that one can accuse all religion of having its bad points. christianity, it is true, and that of course includes Catholicism, has hd its dark moments, but so has Islam, Judeism, and I presume Hinduism has as well although I know hardly anything about that religion so can't comment informedly on it. It also occurred to me that if Catholicism didn't exist, we wouldn't have had that splendid sitcom about Catholic priests entitled 'Father Ted', every single episode of which is a masterpiece worthy of a comic genius! It's getting late here, so I'll sign off in the true Catholic fashion by saying: piae jesu, piae jesu, qui tollis pecata mundi, dona eis requiem, requiem eternam, amen.
Lawlord your jumping Goblin for making a generalization about Catholics; however, you do the same thing in your post about Latter day Saints? Isn't this a double standard? Now, on Jamy's issue. Your an adult, and it's apparently past time that your parents realize it. I'm 27, and my Mom would never presume to tell me where I could and couldn't go; even when we were living with her. Your choice of religion is also up to you. Only you can say what your comfortable with and only what your comfortable with is the path you should follow.
Hmmm, I think I'll have to brush up on my latin. However, on a more serious note, I think every person, regardless of age, has a right to attend church or to not attend church as they see fit. I'm planning to raise my children when I have some as I was raised, Catholic. However, once they reach the age of around 13 or so (I pick that because that's when I started questioning my faith), I'll sit down with them and tlel them that what they want to do with their lives religiously is pretty much up to them. I'd appreciate them talking to me about what they're considering, but I'm gonna leave the door wide open.
I accept, Witchcraft, that I make a general statement about the church of latter day saints above, and I shoulud have mentioned that this generalisation is based on practices such as polygamy, which are legal under that religion but illegal under the laws of the United Kingdom and I would not stand aside and allow a child of mine to be encouraged to violate the law. Now, turning to the last post about everyone having the right to go to church regardless of age etc. Some religious teachings, however, leave irreversible effects on people. to illustrate, let me put another scenario to you: imagine a child is raised by a Muslim father and a christian mother, but the upbringing is essentially secular: when the child is nine months old, the relationship breaks down and the child lives with the mother. Now, imagine that the Muslim father wishes that the child be circumcised in accordance with the practices of Islam: he claims, before the court, that the child learns Islamic teachings during the time he spends with the father, and that when the couple were together he was educated in the Islamic faith. The mother, however, opposes circumcision contending that it would psychologically harm the child and that the child is a Christian. Okay, you're all judges of the family division of the high court where this is being argued: what would be your decision as to outcome, and what reasons would your written judgment contain?
Assume, for present purposes, that the medical evidence before you indicates that circumcision is still a possibility at the child's age as it would not inflict undue pain on him.
Lawlord, as for your statement about polygamy...The older devision of LDS practice such, but not newer devissions. Just as in the Catholic church there are different sectors to look at. I know because though I am not anymore LDS I use to be and my husband was raised LDs. The sector in which he was raised did not permit polygamy in any form. Now, as for your question...Are we assuming that the mother's Christianity does not allow for circumcission? I'm asking because from what I understand most Christian sectors practice circumcission, however, the circumcission is performed upon the child's birth. Now, if this is our assumption. I would say, both teach as they feel fit, however, the child should be allowed when older to make such a momentus decission about his life. I understand circumcission hurts later in life? I wouldn't of course know for sure...However, if the child does decide the father's beliefs over his mother's I don't think he would have a problem with it.
I wasn't aware that circumcision was practised by any christian denomination but yes, assume for the purposes of the judgment you must give that the mother's denomination does not allow for it.
Witchcraft, some sects of Mormonism still practice poligomy... they live in Colorado City, a majority of them, which is only a few hours away from where I live. The government just sits by and lets it happen... it really pisses me off!
Your honour, I rest my case. NOw what about this matter of our hypothetical child and circumcision? He's getting older by the minute, you know.
I said, some didn't, and it isn't right to generalize all when the generalization isn't true for all...
Witchcraft, the references to the church of latter day saints have never rerferred to all of those who are of that religion. In fact, I think the last correspondent makes the point that only some sectors of that church practise polygamy. Now, that as far as I'm concerned is ample justification for the point I make and that I made originally viz. that I wouldn't want any child of mine having anything to do with a church that even remotely associates itself with polygamy. I should add, before people start pointing out to me that this would exclude a number of religions such as Islam, that first of all, the Muslim Council of Great britain do not endorse polygamy, and secondly, that if this general exclusion on the grounds of polygamy does indeed embrace other faiths, then so be it and I make no apology for that.
Hi, I think you should pray and ask the Lord to soften the hearts of your parents and help them to see how important it is for you to study God's word and be in the fellowship of other Christians or jews what ever your particular faith may be.
Other christians or Jews whatever your faith may be.......how ridiculous! that's the whole problem with religious fanatics. why are we limiting ourselves here to Christians or Jews? I mean, I agree that Jamy should go to church if she wants to, but the last correspondent, baseball I think it is, seems to say fine, you go to worship provided that you're a Christian or a Jew, but if you're not then your parents are absolutely right. All claptrap I'm afraid and an example of why religion causes wars.